Well I've been reading about some cars running on e85. one was a d16 making 441hp/333tq on that stuff. I also watched the new fifth gear and they had a segment about a lotus elise running on e35. Supposedly the octane is equivalent to or better then race gas, but the gas mileage on it is really ****ty. I would love to give this stuff a try sometime. maybe we can try it on the mr2 or the cressida.
I think it would be sweet to do it on the mr2. The main thing about it is that you cant use metal or rubber in the fuel system because ethanol will corrode them. There is also something about the fuel pump generating sparks in an in-tank system. We probably wouldnt have to worry about this on the MR2 since we have a plastic tank and in line pump. Getting it would be the problem though since they dont sell it in Florida yet. I think there was a law passed a few months ago making it legal for sale in Florida but I havent seen it yet. You can make your own ethanol but you need a good still.
Problems though: No place in Orlando, Tampa area to get it out of the pump. (Or at least what I could find online) Weird A/F ratio's, but almost same Lambda readings. Eats the crap out of rubber/bare aluminum. Some oils will break down too fast when running it.
Other than that, I would love to run my car on it purely. Crazy compression/boost with some extreme timing sure sounds fun for everyday. And keeping the carbon build up down just makes me happy.
I wish it would grow faster, freaking big oil, always getting in the way.
But now that you bring this up. I have always had a question that I didn't know who to ask. The common saying is that you will lose 27% in fuel economy. But who has every tested this in a vehicle that has been purely made for E85 and other flex fuels.
Lets look at what I am used to. Caravan's come in a FFV version, same 2.4, 3.3 or 3.8 motor that is in the normal petrol Caravan. No increase in compression, timing and the same O2 sensors. So the PCM is thinking that normal gas is running threw it, and it will never change its parameters. Stoich for E85 is 9.8:1, and 1 lambda. compared to 14.7:1 and still one Lambda for petrol. So the normal 4 wire O2 sensor, which reads AFR's, is not going to make the change over for it to run "leaner." So its going to run fat, with a slower burning fuel so of course it just going to send a bunch of unburnt fuel past the O2 sensor and into the cat.
That is my rough theory.
So is the loss of 27% a unjustified statement and should be followed up by saying that a motor that is solely made for Flex fuels, will take more advantage of the higher octane and make more power while at least retaining the same fuel economy if not better!?!?? The new Z06 and Civic Si/RSX Type S have 11:1 compression and can run that on piss water 91 octane. Not only that, both motors are really quick to retard the timing if things get rough, so yes than can run it, but thats pushing it. Now by raising the octane by 14 points, which if you think about what the difference is between 87 and 93 is, which is only 6 points, we should be able to run 12:1 to 14:1 for production cars. Which turns into more power per liter, and which would allow you to run a smaller motor and make the same power (thinking production car terms), which would use less fuel and over all would be a great selling point for the automobile in question.
Now I know saying that 14:1 could be possibly be run doesn't mean that the manufacturer is going to put that in ever car. Its the same reason why the normal civic runs 9.6:1, production cost based on the quality of materials. But the other side of that argument is that the normal civic can take 87 octane and love it. Where if 105 octane is the only thing available, then we could at least see 11:1 and the bottom of the barrel if not higher.
Edit I forgot to add why I wrote all that: So does that make sense? Is the general mainstream media just looking at the fact that it is cheaper, has a higher octane and better for Mr Earth and not a the true benefits of this fuel? Which if we are allowed to use the full benefits of E85 we might have an opportunity to see the tree humpers and meat-eating car loving people get along. World peace could come (well for maybe 2 hours or so) because of E85!!! Bring on the corn fuel. I cannot wait for it any more.
So cliff notes: Ian Hates the media and their lies. E85 means more boost, more compression, more fun off the show room floor. Media is not telling the whole truth on the loss of fuel economy. Ian wants it in his car, everyday. Ian likes to talk in the 3rd person during cliff notes. If I used 'Raoul Duke" in place of Ian, it would be talking in the 5th person.
PS I didn't read this over, so if there is alot of grammar mistakes, sorry, food is more important right now.
-- Edited by Raoul Duke at 18:21, 2006-11-16
__________________
“Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...”
– Hunter Thompson
The Lambdas can be confusing. All fuels will be at 1 lambda when stoichemetric. It is just the ratio of afr to stoich afr. So gasoline at 14.7 afr will be 1 lambda cause 14.7/14.7=1 and at peak power 12.5/14.7=.85. So thats why E85 with a 9.8 afr at stoichemtric is 1 lambda because 9.8/9.8=1. I'm not sure how the FFV's measure the afr but there has to be some compensation because 14.7afr on e85 would barely run if at all. The fuel mileage really is lower though because ethanol has less energy than gasoline. Thats what I hear anyway and for the most part it makes since if you think about it. Stoich is at 9.8afr for e85. So if your just cruising down I-4 running at stoich, you're injecting more fuel to get the lower 9.8afr compared to gas' 14.7afr. And if you're running at the same compression, manifold pressure and timing you will in theory be making less power because of the lower energy in ethanol but injecting more fuel at the same time. This is how the mileage can be lower. However, the e85 has 105octane so you can throw in more timing, more compression and more boost. This will push the engine to more efficient power conditions where 93 octane gas could not go without detonating. I speculate the richer mixture also helps thermal conditions in the combustion as well since there is physically more fuel in the combustion chamber, promoting a slower burn and less heat.
Jon's cliff notes: Jon also hates the media and their lies E85 makes the right pedal more fun fuel economy will most likely drop some I should be studying I really want some subway
EMO4life
